Friday, April 21, 2006


  • You know, it's impossible to say how sick it makes me feel to read this. I can only imagine what it must do to the former residents of Gush Katif and Netzarim.
  • Can anyone honestly point to one single benefit that Israel has reaped to date from the 'disengagement?' It's easy to point to a host of detriments, not the least of which is an increasingly despondent homeless population festering in trailer camps and temporary shelters (but there are many more). (she's talking about Israelis in trailer camps by the way)
Lynn point out presciently that Bogey Yaalon predicted this very forced eventuality in June of 05. (see below)

Meanwhile Aziz the "idealist" talks of the eventual Utopia that will break out in the Middle East when Israel is destroyed as a 'Jewish' State, Palestinians are able to flood into Israel and "justice" is eventually redressed. He comments -
  • but I qualify the two-state solution praised therein with the caveat that
  • 1. the two-state solution is a temporary solution, and
  • 2. if 50 years after a two-state solution is achieved, there is not a federalist solution, then the region will again be home to a cycle of violence for another thousand years. And in fact a successful and vibrant - and above all, free - Israel is a crucial component of a peaceful Middle East for the decades and centuries ahead. So work towards two states for now - but remember that all walls must eventually fall. Jewishness, Democracy, and Greater Israel - pick any two.
A "free" Israel emersed in a region of totalitarian, tribal dictatorships devoid of freedoms, liberties and tolerance.... but only when Israel is free? will the Arabs suddenly transform from the Dark Ages.

Please note that Israeli Arabs are the freest Arabs in the Middle East and that Palestinians in the West Bank are treated 10x better by Israel than in Syria, Lebanon, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. But this is neither here nor there.

Aziz defines "free" in the Middle East as - when Jews in Israel give Arabs 100% equality in Israel and a chance to remove this "amoral sore" to the otherwise moral region.
Of course not when Jews are given 100% equality in Arab countries... or even treated as qualifying as human beings for that matter.

June 2005
Outgoing IDF Chief: New Palestinian Terror War
Against Israel Will Begin After Gaza Evacuation

New York - In an interview with Israel's Ha'Aretz newspaper, outgoing Israel Defense Forces Chief General Moshe Ya'alon said that following the Gaza evacuation and removal of 9,000 Jews from their homes, he expects "there will be an eruption. Terrorist attacks of all types: shooting, bombs, suicide bombers, mortars, Quassam rockets...there is a high probability of a second war of terror which will begin in the West Bank."

When Ya'alon was asked whether he believes that following the Gaza evacuation Kfar Saba's situation will be like the terrible situation in Sderot today, he responded:
  • "and Tel Aviv and Jerusalem too. There will be suicide bombings wherever they can perpetrate them."...... "The disengagement will not create a situation of stability. Therefore, I do not rule out the possibility that the Army will return to the Gaza Strip at some point."
....Last March, Ya'alon said that

"this disengagement plan will blow up in our faces." Part of his concern stems from his belief that "the lesson that terrorism will not pay must be seared onto the Palestinians' minds."

General Ya'alon was also asked about his views on the establishment of a Palestinian state. He said that

  • "the establishment of a Palestinian state would lead to war, and such a war could be dangerous for Israel. The idea that a Palestinian state can be established by 2008, and will then produce stability is divorced from reality and dangerous and will be a state that will try to undermine Israel."
He also commented on the present situation by saying,
  • "For the Palestinians, it is still convenient to maintain a gang-based reality rather than a State foundation.
  • "When the PA permits Hamas to take part in the elections without abandoning its firearms, is that democracy? Its gang, armed gangs playing at pretend democracy. If Fatah continues to behave as it does now, Hamas will eventually take over the Gaza Strip."
When Ya'alon was asked about the general concept of a "2-state solution," he said, "In the present reality, I see difficulty in producing a stable situation of end-of-conflict within that paradigm.
  • "A two-state solution is simply not relevant. It is a story that the western world tells with western eyes. And that story does not comprehend the scale of the gap and the scale of the problem. We, in Israel, are also sweeping it under the rug."
Ya'alon also expressed deep concern about his belief that
  • "PA chief Mahmoud Abbas has not given up the right of return as a claim to be realized. To return to the houses, to the villages. The implication of this is that there will not be a Jewish state here...I also have every reason to be suspicious of the Palestinian Arabs and not to trust them on security arrangements and keeping their side of the deal. It remains a problem for us, the principle of accountability. We want to make a deal in the evening and have it remain true in the morning."
Shockingly, he even expressed concerns that we could face "a situation in which there will not be a Jewish state here in the end."

UPDATE I: AZIZ writes a post at Dean's site about this post and my comments at his Cityofbrass initial post, which he deleted completely. He then accuses me of categorizing him because he is Muslim. My reply in the comments section there.

UPDATE II: Radio Host Slams Wtihdrawal Plan after visiting Israel. Presciently he mentions a lot of the same things Bogey does above. Read it all.

  • "I thought the civilized world learned its lesson about appeasement from Hitler, but clearly we haven't," Humphries told WorldNetDaily after returning to his Florida home. "The terrorists attacked. Israel retreated and gave them the Gaza Strip. Now Hamas has been propelled to power promising to get the Palestinians the West Bank. Rockets are being launched almost daily from Gaza, which has become a terror sanctuary for even America's enemies, including al-Qaeda, according to many reports. Attacks are being stepped up in the West Bank, and in response Israel is planning to retreat next from there.

  • "The message being sent loud and clear is that terrorism works. I've talked with the terrorists. They tell me they won't stop until they get Jerusalem and Tel Aviv and all of Israel. And you know what? I believe them. Why should they stop when Israel responds by giving them more territory?"

    Humphries insisted that he went into the visit unconvinced of the justice of either the Jewish or Arab claim to the land.

  • "Originally, I didn't have a dog in the fight. I am not Jewish or Muslim. I just wanted to figure out the problems and see if there could be a peaceful solution. So I studied the history and read the news and listened to what the politicians on both sides had to say.

    "The Israelis believe if they give up land they will get peace. But listen to the tone of the Palestinian media, education system, leadership and the terrorists. They say the withdrawal from Gaza hasn't made a bit of a difference to them except that it whet their appetites for more. All they care about is the destruction of the Jewish state. They won’t be satisfied until that happens."

    Humphries added that from his interviews with terrorists, it is clear to him what the next stage in the war against the Jewish State would be following Olmert’s planned withdrawal.

    "The West Bank borders and is above many major Israeli cities. When Israel gets out, the rockets will start flying into Jerusalem, and the violence will get out of hand because the terrorists will believe their tactics got them Gaza and the West Bank so why not Jerusalem and the rest of Israel."

    "Even for people who don't think Jews should have a homeland, every religious Christian out there needs to be concerned that Israel is giving these communities – which contain holy sites – to the Palestinians. The one thing I have seen is that when Jews are in control of Christian sites, I as a Christian can go and visit. But when Muslims have control I am either not allowed or am greatly restricted. Either Muslims have to give up their selfish attitude or they cannot be given any authority over other religions' holy sites."

    Humphries cited the current restrictive policies on the Temple Mount, which was given over to control of the Muslim Wakf and the destruction of Joseph’s Tomb in Shechem.

    Summing up, Humphries said: "The withdrawal on all levels is just disastrous. The Palestinians and the Arab world only understand strength and power. When Israel is strong it is respected. But when it is weak and it retreats its enemies will smell fear and they will pounce."


At 7:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

you claimed that Aziz defines "free" in the Middle East as:

when Jews in Israel give Arabs 100% equality in Israel and a chance to remove this "amoral sore" to the otherwise moral region.

i dont see where he defined it that way. can you provide a specific quote of his where he defines free otherwise you are putting words in his mouth to try and make him seem like he is saying something he isn't saying

At 9:30 AM, Blogger Scorekeeper said...

Aziz -
You need other people to comment for you?

To answer your question if you read my post you'd see the word for word quote of his I provided and the highlighted portion which you can easily deduce from.

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